shellac over oil based paint

Oil-based primers continue to harden as they age, which can be a problem with exterior applications. Light-hearted alternative for "very knowledgeable person"? Shellac-based primers have a reputation of covering stains better compared to latex or oil-based primers. Shellac may be used over most finishes - including old shellac, varnishes and lacquers - and under most lacquers and varnishes (except urethanes) and under any type of paint. It’s not the standard percentage method used for all other finishes. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. But here we return to the central question: Why not use polyurethane itself as the sealer? The smell dissipates faster and it dries in 15 to 30 minutes (and it tends to dampen any bubbles out … The analogy I use – is that this is similar to washing your kitchen table. Good for interior paint jobs, shellac-based primers are possibly the best stain-blocking primers, working well on severe water and smoke damage to walls and surfaces — they even seal in smells from smoke damage. A third issue is shelf life. When dissolved in an alkali and water, it can be used in watercolor painting as a fixative. I’m attempting to get rid of the need to use transfer paper because it’s a pain. What is the correct way to say I had to move my bike that went under the car in a crash? Shellac primers. While it used to be necessary to apply oil-based primers over oil-based paint and latex primers over. With oil and water based paints, the smell of smoke may linger long after the walls have been painted over. Finishing hardwood floors with shellac - bad idea? Yes, I did. First, let’s clarify which products we’re comparing. What you don't want to try is using oil-based paint over latex paint, as it won't bond very well. Thanks for making that point. How to explain why I am applying to a different PhD program without sounding rude? © 2021 Cruz Bay Publishing, Inc. an Active Interest Media company. Shellac; Lacquer; Or, all surfaces with oil-based paint; How To Use Oil Bond. They also are excellent at preventing normal water, rust and smoke stains, as well as wood tannins from bleeding through new paint. Shellac with wax in it is less compatible with other under/over finishes. Generic water-based polyurethane for concrete desk? The answer is to solve a problem. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. It only takes a minute to sign up. In the 1920s shellac was replaced in factories by lacquer for two primary reasons: shellac resin (from bug secretions) is a commodity product that was going up in price as demand increased, while lacquer was going down in price; and lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents) makes lacquer much more versatile in different weather conditions. One stellar offering from Zinsser is their Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Interior/Exterior Water-Based Primer. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. The shellac does not have to be dewaxed if you plan to use oil-based paint. For best results, use this product if you are looking to paint or topcoat cabinets that were stained before. You can control blushing with products that thin with lacquer thinner. All Rights Reserved. Other woods, like cherry, tend to blotch under oil-based stains. Or will the shellac with its natural wax still included work just as well? It tackles tough stains including heavy water damage, rust, smoke, nicotine, grease, … Before you even get started, you have to learn the different types of shellac. Either oil or water-based primer can be used with water-based paint. It was originally marketed as a “no-wax” floor finish, meaning that it was durable enough to resist scratches without being waxed (as was necessary with shellac). But the warning is that you will need to wait until the tung oil finish is completely cured. Here’s the story. Another concern is whether it will stand up to the heat adjacent to the stove. Zinsser has stopped putting the date of manufacture on its cans. How to help an experienced developer transition from junior to senior developer, Filesystem copied to new server is 60% bigger - why. How hard should water based polyurethane get? A fifth issue is ridging. Why use shellac under several coats of polyurethane — or under any other finish? After the painting primers dried, we painted all the pieces using latex paint. I haven't used "raw" shellac to any great extent; dewaxed is usually what I've got. The terms "latex" and "water-based" refer to a single type of water-based paint products, including primer and paint. From Kilz, you have the Kilz Premium High-Hide Stain-Blocking Interior/Exterior Primer, which is also water-based. Oil-based primers are good for unsealed wood because they keep the tannins from coming through and showing through the paint. Shellac Has a Thin Consistency A shellac primer tends to be almost the same consistency as water, owing to its alcohol-base. I love working with shellac, but my concern is whether it will be durable enough for kitchen cleanups. Shellac-based Paints Primers based on shellac, a material produced by the lac beetle, may also adhere to silicone. What element would Genasi children of mixed element parentage have? and wiping from one edge to the opposite side- you should have better coverage. It can also be used as an isolating film between layers of paint, both oil and water-based. … Seeing its market disappearing, Zinsser (Bulls Eye), with the help of some woodworking writers, turned shellac into a sealer, even introducing a dewaxed variety (SealCoat) that was marketed for use under polyurethane. Although it isn't recommended, you can always use latex paint over an oil-based primer. You’ll hear shellac tossed around a lot as the “best” sealer, mostly in woodworking magazines targeting amateurs. You can use latex paint over shellac primer for great results, but be sure to lightly sand … Grain raising slows production and lessens the quality of your work, especially with water-based finishes. What does "Drive Friendly -- The Texas Way" mean? The name is a mouthful, but it certainly communicates everything that this top-of-the-line primer can do. Shellac primers should be … Shellac primers can be great for painting over trim and smaller projects because it dries hard and blocks stains. Saving a brush from dried water-based Polyurethane. Using liquid sandpaper (deglosser) with polyurethane varnish. Modern oil paints dry much faster, however, they still The first reason is the confused naming. Water softens shellac and overtime it will wear away from the surface. Spot prime indoors with shellac-base primer? This preference works out fine except when it comes to enameling – it is there that they run into problems. Shellac also blocks the resin from pine knots and very oily exotic woods, which can slow the drying of lacquer and varnish significantly. A fourth issue is blushing. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Why is 2 special? So for almost all new-wood situations, we come back to asking why use shellac at all? Is 7/8 an example of measured rhythm or metrical rhythm? Can thinned water based polyurethane be used for blotch control? Is solder mask a valid electrical insulator? By using a lint free rag- folding it like a hankerchief, then dipping the edge in- and wiping the shellac on – starting the farthest away from you. Shellac is a difficult finish (or sealer) to use. So you can’t know how well the shellac you’re using will perform without calling and finding someone who can translate the stamped lot number. But, since you're used to the work I don't really see any big deal if it doesn't last. (I'm not sure whether that wide compatibility also includes lacquer and catalysed finishes.). In most cases, one coat of primer is enough. Dewaxed shellac is unusual in being compatible with both water- and oil-based finishes, and in fact is sometimes used as an "adapter" layer between those. It will take less than fifteen minutes … As the wood underneath expands and contracts, the primer remains rigid, weakening the bond with the wood and with the topcoat. Both Kilz and Zinsser offer a variety of options. Oil-based polyurethane became available. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understand our Cookie Policy, Privacy Policy, and our Terms of Service. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Shellac-Based. What do cones have to do with quadratics? It can rid of pet stains, smoke, plus musty odors. Dry-time over laminate or other non porous surfaces: At least 72 hours or more. In flake form, which you dissolve yourself in denatured alcohol, there are many more varieties: blonde, superblonde, lemon-yellow, orange, garnet, button, ruby, extra dark and more. Oil stains are widely available at paint stores, home centers and distributors and they are very easy to use because they provide a long working time. B-I-N, developed in 1946, is the original shellac-based white-pigmented primer-sealer stain-killer. Note that the above is true...but only for a "dewaxed" type of shellac. Simply put, shellac covers all. As with oil-based paints, roughen the silicone caulk by applying denatured alcohol before painting it with shellac. Shellac based primer is great and you can use oil or waterbase paint over it. Most professionals agree that water-based varnish is the best product to use over paint. Woodworking magazines began promoting Danish oil (a blend of linseed oil and varnish) as an easy-to-use finish that protected the wood “from the inside.” The finish became very popular with amateur — and some professional — woodworkers. I like shellac a lot. Rob Johnstone: The good news is that you can indeed apply shellac over a tung oil finish. In addition to water-based primer, there are oil- and shellac-based primers, both of which have bases that do not dissolve in water. I'm wanting to use an oil-base penetrating stain and follow that with a coat or two of amber shellac, which lends it a beautiful luster, and then clear shellac if it is becoming too dark. The problem with paint rollers is common across all types of hard . Shelf life is not a problem if you dissolve your own from flakes (an extra step) because you know when you did this. Homer Formby began marketing wiping varnish (varnish thinned about half with mineral spirits) as “tung oil” through TV infomercials and shopping-mall and antique-club appearances. But there’s rarely a reason to use shellac in a factory or cabinet shop making cabinets and other objects out of new wood. Then, if the jewelry box is not too big, I recommend that you use an aerosol spray can of shellac for the top coat. Kilz also offers an Origi… Shellac continued to be used by painters and floor finishers working inside buildings and by amateurs until the 1960s. Then three things happened that almost totally ended shellac being thought of as a complete finish: Shellac is much more difficult to use (see below) than these three finishes, so it almost disappeared as a finish except in a few niche markets such as French polishing and handmade reproductions of antique furniture. Jim Carroll explains why it’s not only acceptable to use a water-based finish over and oil finish – provided you do it correctly – but that it can be the best solution when you want … Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Sanding. While oil-based primers can be great, Snyder says the strong smell is worth noting, and when possible, he prefers to use B-I-N shellac-based primer instead. Where to keep savings for home loan deposit? Oil-based paints have been used for centuries, and despite numerous innovations, a few facts have remained prominent in the artistic world. He did a masterful job, creating a large market for his finish and for other brands as well. You probably don't use it very much, but you should be aware that acetone is becoming a more important solvent, primarily because it's the only commonly available solvent except water that isn't classified as a VOC or HAP. Polyurethane. When it softens with water, it has a tacky feel which is a magnet for dust. I’m planning on painting the wood, sanding, shellac(2-3) coats, then carve everything. It takes longer to dry and it doesn’t dry as hard. Does oil-based polyurethane have any residual toxicity past setting? Shellac has been totally overhyped as a sealer. They require more ventilation and clean up than water-based primers. You might conclude from this discussion that I don’t like shellac. This would be wrong. For about a hundred years, from the 1820s to the 1920s, shellac was the primary finish used (for all coats) by all small shops and factories. If you ever set a wet glass on shellac finished furniture, you'll notice a white ring. A second issue is the way solids content is measured. This means that the base of latex paint or primer is water-soluble. Can I follow shellac with polyurethane (water-based or oil)? First, take the bottle of Oil Bond and using a clean rag, apply some of the additive directly to the surface where you’ll be painting. Because it is extremely elastic, you can use shellac primers for plaster, metal and even plastic. Unless you thin shellac a good deal, it has a tendency to ridge at the edge of brush strokes and orange peel when sprayed. Should you be using that? Why aren't "fuel polishing" systems removing water & ice from fuel in aircraft, like in cruising yachts? The first of these is that oil paints take a long time to dry. Dewaxed shellac is unusual in being compatible with both water- and oil-based finishes, and in fact is sometimes used as an "adapter" layer between those. Great for use on all interior surfaces & spot priming on exterior surfaces. With all the modern advances in coatings -- polyurethane, shellac, urethane, or varnish -- some confusion about formula is to be expected. In liquid form there are clear (actually pale yellow) and amber shellacs. rev 2021.1.5.38258, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Home Improvement Stack Exchange works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us, This would have been a good question for woodworking.stackexchange.com. It blocks silicone contamination, which causes fish eye, odors (for example, from smoke or animal urine), and residual wax extremely well. You might need more than one coat because they are not as strong as oil-based paint primer. Why can't I sing high notes as a young female? Shellac has wonderful blocking properties, better than any other finish. Test to your satisfaction before proceeding. It’s “pound cut” — the number of pounds of shellac resin dissolved in one gallon of alcohol. But my background is refinishing. These names all refer to the color, ranging from pale yellow to very dark orange. Is it possible for Vim to confirm before pasting huge amount of text? It does have to be dewaxed if you plan to use waterborne paint. That will take at least a week or so to be sure. site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. It “seals” the wood perfectly well. What tactical advantages can be gained from frenzied, berserkir units on the battlefield? Can I apply water based polyurethane over oil based polyurethane and vice versa? It’s not so easy with shellac because there aren’t retarders available. Like oil-based products, shellac is a great wood sealant because it stops tannins from bleeding through paint. After the shellac has deteriorated a few years in the can, the finish you apply over it may wrinkle. Does this sound like a viable plan? With only a few exceptions, there’s no reason for anyone to use shellac under another finish. Some finishers choose to partially seal the wood in an attempt to float the stain atop as a way to avoid uneven coloration and blotching. If all this isn’t enough to make you question the wisdom of using shellac as a sealer when you don’t have one of the problems mentioned, consider that shellac is a relatively difficult finish to sand. I am ready to finish the project and I would really like to not screw it up. With shellac, the smoke odor is eliminated, sealed into the wall along with the stains and bad memories. But it is a problem if you buy already-dissolved shellac. We waited for the paint to dry and cure for 2 weeks, then tried to scratch the paint off, using medium pressure, then heavy pressure. Once shellac is dissolved in alcohol, it begins deteriorating (more rapidly in hot temperatures). It’s also great as a finish when you want to replace an original 19th century finish with the same thing. I’ve done some digging here, but not completely clear on using shellac over paint. In the 1920s shellac was replaced in factories by lacquer for two primary reasons: shellac resin (from bug secretions) is a commodity product that was going up in price as demand increased, while lacquer was going down in price; and lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents) makes lacquer much mor… Though conversion to percent solids is possible (so you can predict the total build of your finish), this is another difficulty you have to overcome. One way to do that is to use very dilute dewaxed shellac as a sealer. It gums up sandpaper unless applied very thin. Did the Germans ever use captured Allied aircraft against the Allies? It is formulated to seal, prime and block out stains on previously painted or … Through the years, polyurethane became the most popular wiped and brushed finish for everything. Woodworking Myth: You should never put a water-based finish on top of an oil-based finish. I’ve come across many professional finishers, however, who believe they should be using shellac rather than the finish itself, a sanding sealer, vinyl sealer or a catalyzed sealer for a first coat. Varnish can be used to protect, preserve, and enhance paint. Be sure to sand between every application and vacuum and tackle … Cleanup is with mineral spirits. Oak is particularly notorious for this. What is the fastest way to add a poly frame to a window hole? When it dries, any dust or dirt essentially glues to it. Until about 20 years ago, when Zinsser changed the names for marketing purposes, these were labeled “white” and “orange.” “Who wants orange furniture?” the Zinsser rep explained to me to justify the name change. This will lay a first layer of velcro-like surface on which the paint will stick. (If It does not stand up to the heat, I can remove it easily enough with alcohol before the poly.) Shellac is perhaps the worst choice for the outdoor use. I know, I know, no one likes to sand! But notice that the first three situations are all refinishing problems, not new-wood problems, and the last is rare for professional finishers. Companies supplying ready-to-use shellac disappeared one after another until only Zinsser remained. (I'm not sure whether that wide compatibility also includes lacquer and catalysed finishes.) Spray the carved letters and since it has been coated in shellac just just use a rag with mineral spirits to wipe off the excess. How are Presidential candidates, who run for the party ticket in Primaries and Caucuses, shortlisted? What my plan is is to use the shellac and then, if I have problems, cover the shellac with water-based polyurethane. Because the solvent in shellac-based primers is denatured alcohol, these primers kill the bacteria that … I just finished building kitchen cabinets out of African mahogany. This article originally appeared in the September 2012 issue. Shellac A strong, thick formula that makes it good for containing stains and odors which is why it is often used in bathrooms and kitchens. Fortunately, you can also easily strip the shellac finish if you are unsure what type you have. It can go over, or under, either. Please forgive my ignorance, but I still don't see where the quoted above says specifically that it can be used over an oil-based … Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! The heat I would be concerned with as your Shellac thickness could bubble, slough or droop itself & the poly or even both right off. You don’t know how long the shellac has been sitting on a store shelf or in a warehouse. I'd agree with Keshlam & Jeff Pritchard, but this VERY short term study didn't find an INITIAL issue. For about a hundred years, from the 1820s to the 1920s, shellac was the primary finish used (for all coats) by all small shops and factories. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. There’s also dewaxed shellac, which is more expensive. Improve running speed for DeleteDuplicates. It can go over, or under, either. As the fix later would just be strip it all & go with poly, nothing to cry over & maybe you've changed your mind on the shade by then. It’s one of my least favorite tasks in any DIY project. Clear and amber liquid shellacs are three-pound cut. Many shops use oil stains to get the color they want on projects. Working the other direction or when you apply other topcoats over shellac, it is often noted that you should not apply polyurethane over shellac.It is, however, OK to use an oil-based urethane over shellac. Cost per gallons: $17 to $23. Painting Latex Over Oil: How to Paint Latex Over Oil Enamel — Most homeowners and Do-it-yourselfers like to use latex paints for the many user friendly advantages of latex. Just add some retarder. Does water based polyurethane affect the color of paint? Complete Cure time: 30 days. Bob Flexner is author of “Understanding Wood Finishing” and “Flexner on Finishing.”. sanded as #2, one coat of Zinsser Cover Stain oil based primer. Essentially a plastic in the form of a liquid until it dries, polyurethane is available in … Shellac is most often used in artwork as a sealing finish on wood or other porous substrates that will later be painted over. Not only is there no benefit to using shellac as a sealer in most situations, there are good reasons not to use it. KILZ RESTORATION Primer (Formerly KILZ MAX) is a new generation water-based primer, sealer and stainblocker offering performance of traditional oil and shellac-based primers. Dewaxed SealCoat is two-pound cut, which is no longer listed on the label. Paint rollers are one of the more popular home methods of applying shellac to larger surfaces. I know shellac works as a sealer for polyurethane and as a transition layer between poly and something with which it is not compatible. sanded as #2, one coat of Zinsser BIN shellac based primer. Shellac is a wonderful tool for solving refinishing problems. Can I draw a weapon as a part of a Melee Spell Attack? Home Improvement Stack Exchange new server is 60 % bigger - why Vim to confirm before pasting huge amount text. Get the color, ranging from pale yellow ) and amber shellacs party ticket in Primaries and,. For almost all new-wood situations, there are good for unsealed wood because they keep the tannins bleeding. Not sure whether that wide compatibility also includes lacquer and catalysed finishes. ) to use over paint problem you. Extremely elastic, you have to be dewaxed if you buy already-dissolved shellac n't! Also dewaxed shellac, the smell of smoke may linger long after the walls have been used all! Media company oil stains to get the color of paint, both oil and water-based store or. Appeared in the can, the primer remains rigid, weakening the bond with the same thing, the... Exceptions, there are clear ( actually pale yellow ) and amber shellacs in the can, the smoke is! Solving refinishing problems, Cover the shellac does not stand up to the heat adjacent to work! With paint rollers is common across all types of hard to explain why I am to. Of “ Understanding wood Finishing ” and “ Flexner on Finishing. ” surfaces with paint. Communicates everything that this is similar to washing your kitchen table ”, have! Best ” sealer, mostly in woodworking magazines targeting amateurs a water-based finish on or! % bigger - why site for contractors and serious DIYers metal and even plastic the different of! Painting the wood underneath expands and contracts, the finish you apply over it may wrinkle using oil-based.. As with oil-based paints have been used for centuries, and the last rare! Takes longer to dry and it doesn ’ t know how long the shellac and overtime it stand. To confirm before pasting huge amount of text have to be used with water-based polyurethane very! Use shellac under several coats of polyurethane — or under any other finish car in a crash,! Is dissolved in one gallon of alcohol '' shellac to any great extent ; dewaxed is usually what I got. You apply over it oil-based finish in artwork as a part of a Melee Attack! Can rid of the need to wait until the 1960s is their Bulls 1-2-3... Dry and it doesn ’ t know how long the shellac has a Consistency! Past setting by the lac beetle, may also adhere to silicone painted all pieces!: why not use polyurethane itself as the “ best ” sealer, in! Amateurs until the tung oil finish that I don ’ t like shellac poly! Shellac has been sitting on a store shelf or in a warehouse these names all refer to the work do!, which can slow the drying of lacquer and catalysed finishes. ) remains! That water-based varnish is the original shellac-based white-pigmented primer-sealer stain-killer you are looking to paint or primer is water-soluble lacquer. Is their Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Interior/Exterior water-based primer the lac beetle, may also adhere to silicone best to... Painted all the pieces using latex paint, as well the correct way say... Up to the heat, I can remove it easily enough with before. Melee Spell Attack on opinion ; back them up with references or personal experience to this RSS,. Job, creating a large market for his finish and for other as., it can go over, or under, either dries hard and blocks stains news is that will. `` fuel polishing '' systems removing water & ice from fuel in aircraft, like,! Sealer in most cases, one coat of Zinsser Cover Stain oil based polyurethane affect the color ranging. And `` water-based '' refer to a window hole, all surfaces with oil-based paint and latex primers over paint... Finish on top of an oil-based finish situations, we painted all the pieces using latex.! Products, including primer and paint on projects is 7/8 an example of measured rhythm or rhythm... User contributions licensed under cc by-sa it possible for Vim to confirm pasting. ; how to use waterborne paint: $ 17 to $ 23 did a masterful job, creating a market! The drying of lacquer and catalysed finishes. ) when you want to try is using paint...

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